Where You're Going

John Liddle

And we’re joined by one of my good friends now. I’ve known her for years at this point, and, she’s dispensed a lot of wisdom over the years. Leigh Richardson is with me. Leigh is a brain health expert. She contributes to local and national media and is an international speaker as well an author of “Turn Your Brain on to Get Your Game On.” Also Leigh is a licensed professional counselor as well and founder and clinical director of the Brain Performance Center in Dallas. And I would add you’ve got an outstanding weekly podcast as well: In Your Head with Leigh Richardson. So you’re everywhere. You’re you’re a busy person.

Leigh Richardson:

Thank you. And you know what, John? It’s a good time to be busy. There’s a lot going on in our world.

John Liddle:

There is a lot going on in our world. But thankfully, for you, for me, for our society, the focus on mental health dealing with our traumas, dealing with our past, looking forward to the future. We’ve been on a journey here over the last decade or so. And I think I hope things are are getting better. What is your take on it from a counselor’s perspective?

Leigh Richardson:

I think things are getting better because I think that we’re realizing It’s okay to not be okay, but it’s not okay if you don’t do something about it. For for the last 20 years, we’ve tried to hide it. There’s so much stigma around mental health. And, you know, this is a true fact. Someone that suffers with a mental health or substance abuse problem will suffer 10 years before they’ll reach out and get help. John, That’s a decade, man. That’s a long time. And I think what changed as people have number one realized, and I think COVID put us in closer touch with some of our personal values…and they’ve realized that, you know what? It is it’s okay to take care of myself, and I’ve got to stop and think about what are my core values are…what’s important to me.

John Liddle:

Absolutely. You do. And and so that’s something that you help people do. I’m not a a counselor, but I am passionate about people experiencing freedom. And so whatever role I play in that, if it’s just to do interviews and help disseminate some information, whatever, I’m really passionate about it as well. And one of the things that has been on my heart very, very deeply, and that’s why we’re doing a a three part series on it here. is the concept of forgiveness. From a counselor’s perspective, from somebody who helps people through their past and their present trying to get to the future. What is your take on the role that forgiveness plays and all that?

Leigh Richardson:

Well, John, who hasn’t been hurt by somebody? Everybody has. And I see a lot of when people come in, they’re holding it all within, and they haven’t really processed it. And a lot of times when I start talking with people I can tell, oh, they’re bitter, they’re resentful, they’re angry. They they’re letting that…whatever it is, it’s managing them. They’re not managing it. And that’s the first thing I’ll say is, you know, what? Focus on what you can control. If you’re hanging on to what happened in the past and you’re letting that control you, you’re living in the past. And when you say something like that, that’s an eye opener. No. You know, I I know. I know. I know. I know I need to be present in the moment. Yeah. You do. So let’s talk about how you can do that. And sometimes you just gotta get mad about it, John.

John Liddle:

Sometimes you do. You know, sometimes we’ve stuffed those feelings so deep in our recesses. I know for me going through really deep counseling and therapy for the first time over the last 4 years or so. We’ve looked at those things that I haven’t really had the chance to get mad about. And in some cases, it’s something that you experienced as a child that you want to get rid of. You don’t want to have resentment about it, but it still comes out in the triggers still coming out to this day as a 41-year-old. And in order to process through that, to have better reactions I’ve had to go back there and get a little bit mad.

Leigh Richardson:

You’ve got to get mad. You’ve got to feel hurt, and you’ve got to grieve. You’ve got to almost go through it because forgiveness, being able to forgive somebody, it’s a process. And so is grieving, it’s a process. So first, you’ve got to process what happened to you. Forgiveness means something different to everybody. What I’ll hear people say is “I don’t wanna forgive because I’m not gonna let them think it’s okay what they did.” That’s not what what forgiveness is about. It’s about you. It’s about how open you feel…and about finding that peace.

John Liddle:

I’m so looking forward to this. Not only this conversation, but ones I’m going to have because I just want to ask questions with an open mind and and get different perspectives. But I love what you say about it. It’s not it’s not about them. It is about us. So how can forgiveness change us?

Leigh Richardson:

Oh, in so many ways. If you can create that inner peace within yourself, it’ll improve your relationships with your friends and your family, it’ll improve your own mental health. You know, we I think we all have anxiety at some point in time. You know, it’s situational, and sometimes anxiety is good. It motivates you to get done what you need to get done. But, you know, it can when you’re when you’re bogged down when you’re holding all those low frequencies. You feel it. The body keeps score of everything that’s going on in the brain. And there’s research that supports that. So when when you create wellness in your mind, you create wellness in your body, you improve your immune system. You sleep better. Yeah. It improves your self esteem. Your your heart works better. Everything looks better.

John Liddle:

In your opinion, do we have to forgive? I do wanna emphasize, and we can get into this a little bit later…forgiveness doesn’t necessarily mean restoration. It doesn’t necessarily mean that person gets the same place in your life as they did before. That’s not what we’re talking about. But It is forgiveness of what’s been done to us…is that essential to heal? Do you have to do it to heal?

Leigh Richardson:

I think you do. Because if you’re holding it in and it’s bringing you down and it’s impacting the the way that you’re approach life. And if you’re holding negative energy, that’s what you’re looking for. We always find what we’re looking for. Every time! If we’ve got that story playing over and over in our head, “I was done wrong. I was done wrong. This is bad. This is bad.” What do you think we find every day? We go out and we fight, “that guy cut me off. That lady…the elevator was closing. She could have pressed the button.” I mean, we always find what we’re looking for. And that’s because that’s the way the brain works. Two thirds of the cells in the right hemisphere of the brain are always scanning for danger. This is the same brain we had back in the caveman days when it was or be eaten. You know, you come out and it’s like, okay. What’s out there? Research says you have three times more positive events in your day than negative. But what? We see the negative.

John Liddle:

And that is that is so true. And so we if we’re going to hold on to the negative, then we hold on things that were done against us. Whether it be today or 30 years ago. And we’re just gonna keep going there and until we choose to forgive that or choose to heal from it. Where does forgiveness fall in the healing process, or is it different for everybody, Leigh?

Leigh Richardson:

Well, I do think it’s different for everybody. And I think you made the most important point, John. You have to choose. And, you know, forgiveness is an intentional decision that you make. You have to choose to let go of something. And I think that for everybody, it’s different how you process that information, what you think about, what gets you there. Maybe it’s someone important in your life that days, “Look. Same story. I’ve heard this story 99 times. I’m done. I’m done, Leigh!” Okay. Well, that’s a little motivating. Or maybe it comes from a spiritual basis. Can you recognize you know what? Just need to let it go. I need to I need to if if you read the Bible, if you listen to music and you say, I need to internalize those those words. You know, I’m reading. I I I’m reading it, and it sounds good. But you need to internalize it, and maybe you need to start speaking it.

John Liddle:

but you need to internalize it, and maybe you need to start speaking it. Absolutely. And and we’re really gonna get deep, especially with the third part of this, into the into the spiritual aspect. specifically the Christian aspect of it, but I wanna, you know, just make sure to make space for everybody in here no matter where you are, whether you you know, you believe in a higher power or you don’t or or whatever the case may be. I because I believe there’s hope for everybody and there’s freedom for everybody. And I know that’s something you believe as well. You know, I I I put the question out there to some of my Facebook friends you know, just it was very generic. What how do you feel about forgiveness? I just wanted it to be as open ended as possible. And there were some people that came back and said, you know, it it took me 4 to 5 years to forgive. I I’m sure that, you know, I was trying to do it Right? They said, but I it just took me 4 to 5 years. you know, I’m first sure for some people, it takes way longer than that. Is that okay? Is it okay that it takes a while, to fully let something go?

Leigh Richardson:

Well, I think that it is because you have to understand there’s four things that puts a brain in a dysregulated state. And when that brain is in a dysregulated state, it’s harder to let go. You’ve got genetics. You’ve got physical head trauma. You’ve got the emotional trauma. And then you’ve got stress. And if you keep yourself stressed out in a stressed state, hold on what happened 10 years ago…yeah…it’s gonna take a little bit longer. And the way that we process, the way that the brain processes information is we turn it into stories. But the brain’s not really all that concerned whether that story is true or accurate. And we keep telling ourselves those stories over and over and over. And until you can stop and say: “John, is that really what happened, or is that just the way you remember it?” And for some people, that’s where it has to start.

John Liddle:

We’re visiting with Lee Richardson just a tremendous resource on the brain and how it works, and you’re hearing some of that. and only when we think about, you know, moving forward in life and moving forward with forgiveness, One thing that really became a revelation for me just in the last few weeks is that we’d like for forgiveness to be a one time thing. Right? I forgive my brother for this and it’s done. I forgive my boss for this and it’s done. But like you said, with the way the brain works is we’re trying to retrain it just naturally. Those thoughts are gonna come back even if we say I choose to forgive and even if we’ve got some good feelings about that person. It may be a continuous fight. Sometimes we’ve got to continually choose to forgive It’s not just a one time deal sometimes.

Leigh Richardson:

Oh, I absolutely agree, John. Because let’s say you forgive your brother. Then you’re hanging out with him, and he does what he always does. And that triggers. That triggers like, “Oh, here we go again!” You know? And when that happens, catch it. Because you feel it. Sometimes you’ll maybe you feel it in your gut. I feel stress in my chest. It feels tighter. We all feel differently. Pay attention to what’s going on in your body. What do you feel? And when you feel that, and then you hear it in the brain, “Here we go again.” Stop and breathe into it. That is one thing you can do wherever. It doesn’t matter where you are. You’ve got to breathe. You know? And when when we’re talking, I’m probably taking 12 breaths a minute. My optimal birth rate is between 4 and 7 just like yours is. So stop. And my favorite thing when somebody really put pushes my buttons…I just close my eyes, and I visualize this triangle. And I breathe in and I hold, and then I breathe out. And not everybody needs something to visualize. It helps me stay focused. But whatever works for you. When you feel it in your body, when you hear it start going on in your brain, stop it…and you can.! And just focusing on your breath rate, if you slow your breath rate down, you’ll slow your heart rate down. If you can get those two to dance together, you’ve got heart rate variability, it’s a sign of wellness.

John Liddle:

Oh, I love that. I love that, Leigh brings so much more to the table than just regular counseling advice. There is so much more to the brain, to the body, That’s why I love Leigh so much!

Leigh Richardson:

That’s why I love being on with you, John.

John Liddle:

I appreciate that. When it comes to forgiveness, there are so many different types of things to forgive. We could be trying to forgive something really little like being cut off in traffic. Or something unimaginably big. Maybe we do want to still have a relationship with that person we are choosing to forgive. But sometimes it’s not good for us to continue that relationship. Can we talk about the difference between forgiveness and restoration? And then forgiveness and the choice that it’s okay in some cases to not restore that person to the spot they had in our lives previously.

Leigh Richardson:

I think you make a good point because some people say, “Well, If I forgive them, then I’m gonna have to let them right back in my life. I’m gonna have to reconcile with them.” No. You don’t. Because forgiveness is all about you, and you’re doing it to get that peace in your heart. Maybe you’re doing it to lower your blood pressure. I don’t know why you’re doing it, but it why you’re doing it is all about you. The question that I I’ll ask people is when you start to think about forgiveness…remind yourself why do you want this person in your life? You only have one dad. Maybe you only have one brother. But stop and think about why do you want this person in your life? And recognize the goodness…because sometimes it’s not all bad. It’s that one thing that I was eight years old, and in front of everybody at the family reunion, He held my head under the water in the river. And the strange thing is is nobody else family remain reunion remembers.

John Liddle:

That’s right. But you do. One thing I do wanna ask though is for relationships that do want to survive. And again, I want to also emphasize that we don’t always have to go to somebody and say, “I forgive you for this or that” in order to forgive them. We can just forgive them in our minds, forgive them in our hearts, forgive them for us. But what can the value…if you believe that a relationship should survive…of coming to somebody and especially if they’ve apologized from the heart and saying, “I forgive you. And I bless you.” How can that help restore a relationship that does deserve to be restored?

Leigh Richardson:

Well, you know, an apology is a first step in forgiveness. And when somebody comes to you with a truly sincere apology, you know it, and you feel it. Maybe at that point in time, Oh my gosh. You know, I’m surprised. Where did this come from? And — Right. Yeah. You have to process it a little bit. But after you do process it, for me, the easiest thing to do is say, “Thank you for the apology. That meant a lot to me.” And that opens that door. That opens a door. And it’s giving back because whoever have made that apology, it was hard for them. Because honestly, where I see people struggle with forgiveness the most is forgiving themselves.

John Liddle:

Yeah. I definitely wanted to get into that so I’ll let you do it. That is definitely something that I have been been working on here recently. I really feel like I I caused my divorce 3 years ago. But at some point I’ve got to let that go and say “I forgive myself.”

Leigh Richardson:

You do. Because if you don’t, don’t put yourself in the victim role. You know? No. No. No. Because you can be the hero in this whole thing. Don’t be the victim, and it’s just as easy to be the hero. Just admit…it was a it was a painful divorce. Every every sad ending hurts, and it usually hurts everybody. But instead of the “what ifs”…I hate the “what ifs!” Or the “shoulds.” “I should have done this. I should have done this. I should have done this. If I had done this…” Because should has these two little friends called “shame” and “blame.” “Well, you should’ve done that, Leigh.” Well, you know, I didn’t! “It’s all your fault this happened or this didn’t happen.” So when you start with those negative thoughts, the “shoulds,” everything’s a catastrophe. You’re you’re playing the victim. And there’s no reason to do it. It was, you know, “I’m really sad that my marriage ended 3 years ago, and I’ve spent the last couple of years really working on myself to understand how if I when I get in that if I get in that situation again, how I can react differently, and how I can make myself a better person to be married to.” There’s the hero.

John Liddle:

Come on. And I I really appreciate you calling me out on that. And I hope that it helps some people just be like, you know what? I blame myself for this or that. Losing my job. Losing a relationship with my kid. But even in saying “I did something bad and and so it was my fault.” That’s playing the victim. And I don’t think about it that way enough. And none of us need to play the victim. That is not a place, where we can thrive from.

Leigh Richardson:

Who wins? Who wins when anybody plays the victim? Nobody. Nobody does. But it’s that negative thinking. It’s a negative plot. So many have negative thoughts or jump to conclusions in their head. So many people…oh my gosh, they’re fortune tellers!! They can tell you what’s going on in your brain, you know? It’s just negative thinking and being able to wrap your hands or your arms around that. You know what? I’m looking for the positive. Today, I am looking for the positive. At the end of the day, what are the three things I’m grateful for?

John Liddle:

I think there’s just a little bit more here, Leigh on self-forgiveness. If somebody’s struggling with self-forgiveness and I’ve heard from several people, who are. They say “I tend to not hold grudges against other people, but I just can’t seem to forgive myself.” Where do you start with people when it comes to self-forgiveness and and where do you try to get them?

Leigh Richardson:

Well, what I what I do is I ask them about a time when somebody forgave you for something that you did, And it’s usually not a something real big. It may be something smaller. But I encourage them…think about a time when somebody did forgive you. How’s that feel? And then I ask them to reflect back…you know, is that really what happened? Because sometimes when I challenge myself…”Leigh is that really what happened?” Well, I don’t know. But it’s the way I wanna think it happened.

John Liddle:

And so by doing that, just trying to get to the truth, it can help us to reframe the whole thing, look at it from a different perspective. Sometimes the way we’ve been looking at it for the last 5 years…I mean that’s why we’re seeing our counselor because it ain’t working for us, you know, to think about it the same way over and over again.

Leigh Richardson:

But it takes a long time for people to get to that that realization. But if you can catch those feelings instead of trying to redirect them somewhere else, then life gets overall easier. And your quality of life improves.

John Liddle:

Wow. Well, this has been such a rich jam packed last few minutes. Leigh, if somebody is just having trouble with forgiveness and trying to see the benefit of it, just give us a quick wrap up. Why is it best?

Leigh Richardson:

Well, I it’s best for you, for your health, and for your heart, and for your brain, but you’re not the only one out there. Stanford University has done a lot of work on forgiveness. And for those of you that are struggling with being able to forgive Google “Fred Luskin at Stanford University.” Because he wrote a book, “Forgive for Good.” I think being able to recognize you’re not the only one. Most of us have something that we just got stuck in our in our heart or in our head, and we don’t let it go. And I have found, John, most people do want to let it go. “Help me get it out of my head.” They just don’t know how. And when something’s got control of you, then you don’t feel that you can. When you start to take control of whatever it is, then guess what? You’re in charge.

John Liddle:

And I know that’s what you’re all about, making sure that, we, all of us, Each one individually has the power. And we’re the hero in the situation as you mentioned before. Oh, and if you want more of Leigh Richardson, and I know you do, her podcast “In Your Head with Leigh Richardson is outstanding. And also, she is clinical director at the Brain Performance Center in Dallas. And there are so many resources out there. Just Google Leigh Richardson, and you’ll find a ton. But I’ll make sure to leave a lot of those in the notes as well for this show. Leigh, I cannot thank you enough for your time. You are so kind. I’m so glad I’ve known you for the past 4 or 5 years now, and Thanks for helping all of us today.

Leigh Richardson:

Thank you, John so much for asking me to.