John Liddle:
We bring on my friend, Mark Alewine. We met at a Christian entrepreneurs conference a few months ago. You find it very funny. Okay. I’m gonna tell the story. You wanted to call out to me because I’d asked a question in front of the audience, and you’re like, “Hey. That that guy looks interesting. I’m gonna talk to him.” You asked your wife what my name was, and she said it was “David.” So you called out, “Hey, David!”
I came running. And I said, “David!” And I’m running, and I’m like, “David!” And I know you can hear me. “David!” Then you turned back to me, And I did actually say, “Your name’s not David, is it?”
John Liddle:
And hopefully, I was nice. I did tell you my name.
Mark Alewine:
I just thought it was hilarious. My wife usually has those things spot on. I said, what’s that guy’s name? She goes, “I think it’s David.” Yeah. Anyway, the rest is history. That’s how we met, that we got to talking.
I was actually down in Nashville. So for me, it’s down there because I’m up in Minnesota. We we had gone from Minnesota to to the Franklin area for Dan Miller’s 48 Days Eagles conference that was tagged on to the Christian Entrepreneurs Conference. And so you and I actually met at that conference. Yeah. And here we are today.
John Liddle:
Here we are today, and I, have had It’s a great time getting to know you and learning about what you’re passionate about. And today, you get to host this podcast, which we’ll get to a second, and and write all sorts of music and lead worship all over the nation. What does life look like for you right now?
Mark Alewine:
For over 40 years, I served as a worship leader or worship pastor, both full time and part time. In 2020, specifically on Easter Sunday, I retired from the role of worship pastor. I don’t particularly like to use the word “retired,” but that’s the term most people are familiar with, so I use it. For many, retirement means doing whatever you want and never working again. However, that’s not who I am. I still have a lot to give.
Throughout my lifetime, I’ve gained a wealth of experiences. More importantly, even in this phase of my life, I find that there’s still so much to learn. I’m constantly learning, especially in my current endeavors. I was actually in a songwriting session earlier today before this call. My wife, Kathy, and I wrote an entire song. After the session, I added music to it. While I haven’t created the demo yet, I’ll work on it later this evening. Right now, my days are filled with songwriting and song producing sessions.
When I mention “we,” it refers to my wife, who is my business partner in Mark Alewine Music. Regarding the name “Alewine,” I hesitate a bit to mention it this way, but it’s a combination of two alcoholic beverages: ale and wine. Under Mark Alewine Music, we focus on the musical aspect of things.
And then we’ve got the podcast, Grit & Glory, Songs & Stories. And then we’ve got the PACKLIFE, men’s mastermind that I’ve got going there. So life today with music and all those things together is very busy, but I’m working on getting rid of the busy part of my life and getting to the productive part of my life. And I think busy and productive aren’t the same thing.
John Liddle:
No. They’re not. What have you learned about that?
Mark Alewine:
I’ve learned that I could move all the stuff from one side of my desk to the other and then move it all back; that would be busy work, right? The productive side of things involves learning how to use this audio interface, mastering the intricacies of this microphone, understanding the iMac I’m currently using, and figuring out how to share my music with the world. More importantly, it’s about learning from others about how they navigate life at this moment. I also like to make myself available for people. While I do have some boundaries, I enjoy being accessible at this point in my life, where I can set my own schedule and say, “Sure, let’s talk.”
I started my day with coffee, meeting a friend at 7 AM. Waking up at 6 o’clock every day isn’t early for me, so I’m not complaining. Except on Sundays when I’m on the worship team, then I’m up at 4:30 AM. We’ve been doing some traveling; we recently returned from Sarasota for business with the 48 Days Eagles, as I mentioned earlier. We also spent time by the ocean at a friend’s house, which was incredible. Now we’re back home, back to writing music, forging connections, and sharing life with people.
John Liddle:
Have you always been a people person?
Mark Alewine:
I’m going to answer that this way. My dad served in the air force for 20 years. He passed away a year ago in May, and I was by his side. It was an honor to be there for him. I can talk about it now, although it was challenging for me to discuss it last year. But even in my dad’s final moments, I felt the presence of the Lord, and that brought me comfort.
Dad loved the Air Force, and because of his service, we traveled extensively. We moved within Ohio, from the north to the south and everywhere in between. We also lived in Georgia and Japan for the first five years of my life. Being constantly on the move made me the perpetual “new kid” at school. I attended about eight different schools before high school, which was tough.
Despite the challenges, I think those experiences shaped my ability to connect with people. Now, when I’m out with my grandkids, we often strike up conversations with strangers. Last summer, while camping in the woods, I talked to a couple on a bench, and soon more people joined the conversation. My grandkids were amazed and asked, “Do you know everybody?” I don’t have a problem talking to people; in fact, I enjoy it. I met someone this morning at coffee and shared a conversation with him, finding a way to bring Jesus into the discussion without imposing my beliefs. Connecting with people comes naturally to me, and I genuinely enjoy meeting new faces.
John Liddle:
It sounds like once you finally were able to kind of put roots down somewhere…once it was finally safe to do that (you made a lot of friends).
Mark Alewine:
Yeah, so I was born in Savannah, Georgia. Six weeks later, we moved to Japan, and that’s where I spent the first five years of my life. We moved around a lot because my dad was in the Air Force. He served for 18 years, retiring when he was 38 years old. He loved the military, and he always said that he would go back in a heartbeat if given the chance. However, he retired because he wanted me to attend one school for all four years of high school.
If he hadn’t retired, we would have been stationed in Germany. Instead, we moved back to Georgia, where most of our family resides. My kids, grandkids, and my mom, who lives just two miles down the road, are the exceptions. I was able to attend the same high school for all four years, and I thrived there. After high school, I went to the mountains of Northeast Georgia. I’m currently in the foothills of the mountains, close to where I grew up. I attended the University of Georgia, and after that, I got married. My wife and I moved up here to Minnesota.
John Liddle:
So, Mark, you write and churn out a ton of songs. When did you start getting a passion for songwriting?
Mark Alewine:
A friend of my mom and dad’s, back when I was in the 7th grade and we lived in the Cincinnati area, was going through a tough time. He brought his guitar over one day, singing a sad song, possibly a little inebriated. He left the guitar at our house and never returned to pick it up. I wish I still had that guitar today; it was an old Barclay, what I called a “boat paddle with strings on it.” It had a big crack in the body, high action on the neck, and heavy gauge strings. I started picking it up, inspired by John Denver’s music, which was quite popular at the time. His songs were relatively easy to play, even for a beginner like me. With time, I developed calluses on my fingers from playing. Eventually, my parents bought me my first real guitar, an Epiphone FT-550, during my sophomore year of high school. It marked the beginning of my musical journey. I remember writing my first song during high school football camp, a moment of inspiration that led me to share it with others. My choir teacher, Beth, saw potential in me and even made me her assistant choir director, despite my lack of formal musical knowledge. Looking back, those early experiences shaped my passion for music, and I’ve continued to grow and learn ever since.
I didn’t know any musical stuff other than how to play guitar at that particular point. That’s all I knew. I I honestly, I don’t even know if I knew the key signatures and those things. I just took the play. She made me assistant choir director. That was embarrassing. I didn’t even know what I was doing.
John Liddle:
Embarrassing? I thought you were going to say “I was honored!”
Mark Alewine:
I was I was honored. I was embarrassed, but it was it was it was an honor. I mean, it was an honoring thing that she did for me because it really launched me. I sang in a quartet, and we actually won state under her direction. So music has just been ingrained in me. Then I went on to Truett McConnell University in the mountains of Georgia and studied music there, and then on to the University of Georgia. And then I got my degree Here in Minnesota in theology and missions, and I’ve been full time and part time at a church. My wife has never not known me in that role until I retired in 2020. We’ve been married 42 years. So so even before we were married, she knew me in that role.
John Liddle:
So what’s the secret of songwriting?
Mark Alewine:
Listening. And writing a lot. I was in on one of Dan Miller’s 48 days events on a Monday. I was invited to be a guest on with John Sanders and to talk about some life that we had done together. Dan asked me a question similar to what you just asked me. And I said, well, I listen, I observe, and then I go and I write about it. And I said, there’ll probably be a song that’ll come from this experience. And a week later, I had written a song that the 48 Days Eagles use as the theme song now called “Fly with the Eagles.”
Not “Fly like an Eagle,” but “Fly with the Eagles.” We use that as our theme song now. So the secret, I think, is listening and realizing too that co-writing is probably the biggest thing that we can do in life, not just in songs, but co-writing life together is very important when people don’t try to go life alone. Co-writing really, really opens up a world of new experiences when you’re writing songs. Very few songs that we hear that we know are written by one person. They they might have the artist name on it.
Matthew West might be the singer on that. They might say, “here’s my new song.” But if you look on that, there’s probably three or four or five other people that had written that song with him.
John Liddle:
Yeah. What’s the value in getting another pair of ears on it or more insight? Don’t you just wanna control everything and, you know, just make it exactly Mark’s song?
Mark Alewine:
And you still can even as everybody that has their name on that can write their can release their own version of that song. It doesn’t have to be one version. Sometimes people don’t agree. But the idea that you can write these things together, and as we learned…I mean, I’ve been around some some pretty big name songwriters under their tutelage, and they say, it has to be what’s best for the song, not what not what’s best for the person. And somebody has to kind of lead the way in this particular writing session. Not necessarily hold the trump card for everything. That person’s role is you gotta carry that role pretty carefully as as kind of the lead.
Everybody’s voice matters. And if you do it right, it’ll always feel like WE wrote that song. It’ll never feel like, “Oh, I was there, but Mark wrote that song.” Or “I was there, but John wrote that song.” And there was that part of me for so many years, John, I wrote all my own songs…and somebody said, “Said, “why don’t you co write with somebody? Well, I don’t really want to.”
Kinda what you just said there. I I don’t really want to. I don’t wanna give up that control. And then I was talking to a guy named Seth Mosley, who’s a giant down in Nashville. Talking with Paul Baloche. I’ve written some songs with Paul. And they said, you guys, we all cowrite.
We all do. We might write a song by ourselves once in a while, and I might put it out on a video on social media, but very few of us will ever release a song that’s just our own. It does happen, but 95 plus percent, maybe more, all are cowritten, and the value in that is just unbelievable. Plus the relationships that you develop, and you find that you’re really tied in. I write with one guy. His name is Justin White out in the Portland area. He’s a young guy, 30-ish.
He’s an amazing guy, an incredible musician, and a fantastic songwriter. He and I have written lots of songs together. In fact, our most recent song is called “Choose Jesus,” and it just came out last Friday. We wrote that one together. The one before that was also a collaboration between me and Justin. I’ll start with you. Justin and I really click; we can sit down and write a song in an hour and end up with a really good piece. Then, we’ll rewrite it the next day or two because the real magic happens in the rewrite in the music business.
You always want to ensure that what you’re writing is truthful and not just fluffy. So, you might want to review it first and then make tweaks over the next day or so. Just adjust it a little here and there. Justin and I work really well together. The combination of Justin’s experiences mixed with mine creates a pretty sweet relationship when it comes to writing.
John Liddle:
There’s definitely a lesson to be learned from all this that we are better together. Collaboration is an awesome awesome thing. It’s a it’s a tool that if you You don’t use it in whatever field that you’re in. You’re probably missing out on some genius.
Mark Alewine:
There is no question about that. We call it co-writing life together. We can learn from experiences. So I can learn from John’s experience, and John can learn from Mark’s experience. And as long as we’re open and amenable to ideas and thoughts…
I’ve been part of an accountability group before accountability groups were a thing…since 1991. And we just met yesterday.
We meet every month.
There’s four of us that are still together that have been meeting, and we’ve been doing life together, co-writing life together. We come in. We’re accountable for our actions. We call each other out on things, and we’ve called each other out. But we do it in such a fashion that everybody can relate to the struggles, and everybody’s got insight.
And we really have no excuses because I can call these three guys At any time of day or night, if I’m struggling with anything, and if I come back and say, “Well, I messed up in this area. I did that.” Why didn’t you call? Why why didn’t you call? There’s three of us. So if you can’t get one, try the other. There really is no excuse when we’re co-writing life together. And we’re we’re better men because of each other. That makes me a better husband. That makes me a better daddy.
That makes me a better grandfather. Makes me a better musician. Makes me a better Jesus lover and Jesus representative. I’m better when I’ve got other people in my life.
John Liddle:
There are some people that are nodding along right now and saying, absolutely. That’s how I’ve experienced in life, and I wouldn’t be able to get through it without other people around me, and I’m certainly one of those people. There are other people that know that may be the case, but they just don’t feel like they can take that next step to get out there. And then there’s probably a third group that are like “No! I don’t trust nobody. In any case, I’ll just continue to do my own thing.”
But when people just when people get it, when people understand the impact community can have on their lives, they don’t ever go back. I mean it’s amazing what kind of impact community can have.
If somebody’s having trouble taking that first step…what would be that first step?
Mark Alewine:
So I’m gonna use Dan Miller again As as my example for this conversation, I believe it was that same time that you and I met. It was the Eagles event that happened just before the Christian entrepreneurs conference. Dan was talking about the 3 AM list. Who is on your 3 AM list? Now 3 AM list isn’t, “Hey. Let me run this song by you, John. I’m sorry to wake you, but will you mind listening to this song?” No. That’s a that’s a 6 PM call.
That’s not a 3 AM call. You have to define what the 3 AM is. 3 AM call is, “I’m in trouble. I need some help. I need some serious help.” Who’s on your list? And Dan said, think of your age and divide that in half, and that’s how many people you should have.
You just have to think who’s really on that list.
But it’s it’s one of these things where you have to find those people. Well, that means you’ve got to start diving into relationships a little bit more. That’s the trickier part of life. A lot of people, they go to work, whatever their work is, and then when they get done, they wanna slam that door, get in their car, go home, and they just want to be alone. I understand that too.
But we’re so much more vulnerable with life when we don’t dive in. Now I think a lot of people don’t trust other people, and then I would say, “Are you the kind of person that you would trust?”
So if you’re not, then you need to change that part of your life.
So our accountability guys…everything that happens at that table stays right at that table.
The things that we talk about stay right there. We don’t take them beyond that.
We need to learn to be the kind of person that we’re actually looking for in others. And so when we can be that person with other people, you start to determine what people could be that for you, and somebody’s gotta make the initial move.
We’re so anti-relationship, and a lot of people get relationship and drinking on Friday night mixed up. That’s not really the same thing. Those are purely for other reasons. Sometimes it’s for crying in your beer, and sometimes it’s for other things, and then you go home and you think had a great time with the guys. What did you really talk about? What can you even remember? I’m not passing any judgment on anybody when I say that. I just know this to be the case. I’ve been a pastor for over 40 years, and I’ve seen this kind of thing again and again and again. I would say it starts with you, be the kind of person that you’re looking for, and then go find that one other person like that.
And that’s how you start to to develop relationships that you can take to a new level. You can say this person is definitely on my 3 AM list, and don’t abuse that 3 AM list. Use it if you need it. Because at some point, we’re all gonna need it.
John Liddle:
Dr. John Delony was a guest. And one of the things that we talked about from his new book, which is choosing to live a non anxious life is about community. And he says this in his book, and he puts it in bold, so I think he means it:
“Choosing to do life alone is choosing to die early. Choosing to do life alone is choosing to have an anxious life, and choosing to do life alone is a choice to take everyone around you going down with you. He’s talking about, like, your family and and some some of your friends. So we must choose connection because when we’re lonely, especially when we’re surrounded by people who love us, we slowly drown our loved ones.”
He’s serious about this. I know you’re serious about this. I’m serious about human connection as well. It is so so very important.
And to the point where you have a group that you have established that you are doing life with that pack, so to speak, putting your actions where your where your mouth is.
Mark Alewine:
And that group is called Packlife Men. It’s really a mastermind. I think a lot of people get a mastermind, what really is a mastermind as simply a group of people with similar goals and challenges who rely on each other for accountability, advice, support those kinds of things. We meet Tuesday nights at 8 o’clock central. There is a cost involved in it, but it’s relatively minimal. And we find that as people have that kind of skin in in game. They show up. They talk.
They they’re more vulnerable. They’re realizing that I’m in this for a reason, and we collectively talk about life. In general, I just asked the group last week, what else would you guys like from this? And they said, I like doing life this particular way. I love the accountability and the challenges that we’ve got. I don’t wanna do anything else that that’s what we do. So we’re finding huge value in that.
We’ve got guys from different parts of the country, and it’s really, really marvelous to see these guys come together and to learn something new. All of us to learn something new.
It’s a mastermind. It’s a collective. So if somebody’s going through something, you might say, “Travis, what do you think about this particular thing that Daniel’s talking about or that Joe’s talking about or Bill’s talking about?” And they give their perspective on those kinds of things. And we meet for an hour, and we’re done. And it’s something we all look forward to. It’s really great.
Over the years as a pastor, John, I’ve I’ve learned a lot about relationships and the benefit of those kinds of connections.
I think it’s really something when we’re able to meet together, learn how to overcome pride and anxiety, and there’s a correlation between those two, by the way. It’s toxic culture. And together, we just kind of pursue that amazing identity that God has for us.
If you’re struggling, we need to hear about Let’s talk about it. It’s really something. And I’m passionate about helping men be men in this mixed up world that we’re in right now, because society needs men to stand up.
John Liddle:
I couldn’t let you get away with saying that pride and anxiety are linked without letting you go on a little mini sermon about that because that really makes me wanna lean in.
Mark Alewine:
So pride points to yourself, and anxiety is trying to, in many ways, trying to keep up with the identity that you’re trying to portray to other people. Sometimes there’s a, I’m better at something than I really am, and so suddenly if I’m not and becoming exposed then a bit of anxiety comes to that. It’s not they’re not directly linked, but there are many cases where pride and anxiety are linked. I think when we learn how to talk less and listen more, it helps our pride. But then as we start to listen, where we hear from other people, which also can feed into the getting rid of the some of the anxiety because you realize that the things you’re going through are not unique to you. Nobody has gone through anything that’s unique. I’m not saying people haven’t gone through bad things.
I’ve been through some sexual abuse as an 8-year-old. Nobody should have to go through that. It was it was a terrible thing, and I repressed the memories for 40 something years, and they were exposed 12, 15 years ago. And then it felt like it just happened to me as a 50 year old man. Nobody should have to go through that, John. But I’m not the only 8-year-old that’s ever been through that. I’m a 64-year-old now that can help other people that have been through those things because we live in a fallen world.
When we say we don’t need help, that’s pride. And when we refuse that help, that also builds up the anxiety in our life. And then when you swallow your pride and say, “I do need help” and you go get help, it reduces the anxiety.
John Liddle:
That is so good. Mark, thank you so much for that. I really appreciate that, and that’s gonna help a lot of people. It goes right along with what we’re saying, man. We need other people. And a great place you show off some of your connections that you’ve made over the years, both new people to your life and and older people is through your podcast, Grit & Glory, Songs & Stories. And I honestly believe this is one of the more unique podcasts out there, just the way you set it up. Tell us a little bit about the premise of the show and and how it goes.
Mark Alewine:
Well, when we started the podcast, I was part of a mastermind group of sorts with some folks, and we were discussing music. One of the guys said, “You know what? I like music okay, but what I really love are the stories behind the music. Why was that song written? Have you ever thought about starting a podcast?” So, I sought out a coach named Eric Johnson, a podcast guru who really helped me kick-start this journey. In fact, I met him several times last week in Sarasota, where he further guided me in the podcasting process.
Initially, it began one way, but the direction it has taken now is more like when I had you on the show, John. I had you choose a song. I can’t recall the specific song you picked, but I always pick one of my own songs too. I asked, “Why did you pick that song?” Then, I shared a bit about why I wrote it, and we delved into some questions. Now, the main focus of our podcast, John, is to share God’s stories. At the end of each podcast interview, I always ask, “John, would you share a God story with us?” Most people have more than one, and there are those, as I call them, “walking on water” God stories that everyone talks about, which is wonderful and important. We should definitely share those because, you know, some of those miracles are what people need to believe in and see. People need to know that God is still working in our lives today.
As people share these stories, John, no story is entirely unique. Others can relate to them. Some of the stories are incredibly difficult, even terrible, but they are not unique. People are not alone in their struggles, whether it’s dealing with alcoholism, methamphetamines, or any other challenges. Despite these terrible situations, they are stories of redemption. For instance, this morning, I was talking to a guy named Scott Hume, who recently appeared on my show. Just a few years back, he was in a terrible state, and I knew him during that time. He had attempted suicide, and he called me, saying, “Mark, thank God you answered the phone.” I rushed down to the hospital, and after we chatted and prayed together, he transformed. Today, he is a pastor. His life has undergone a remarkable change, and his transformation is undoubtedly a God story. People can listen to his story on the podcast; it’s truly inspiring.
We cherish those “walking on the water” God stories, but we are also encouraging people to look for God’s stories in their everyday lives. You know, John, every single day when we wake up, we have the opportunity to experience and share these incredible moments. For example, I wrote a song called “Savor the Flavor.” There’s a story behind it too. My late father-in-law, who lived with us for five and a half years during his last days, was from Georgia and had this beautiful Southern accent. He noticed that I always put hot sauce on everything; I’m quite passionate about it. One day, he looked at me and said, “Mark, you should savor the flavor.” So I wrote a song, not necessarily about that exact moment, but the title was truly wonderful.
John Liddle:
Every day, here are god things that happen, and we so often attribute it to luck or, you know, just happenstance. No! It’s a “God thing!”
Mark Alewine:
That’s absolutely right, and it’s essential to recognize that. Going back to “Savor the Flavor,” there’s a line in the song that goes, “You gotta do the work to make the pitch.” That’s the essence of what I’m trying to convey here. You need to put in the effort to make your pitch. Now, you might wonder, what do I mean by that? Well, let me explain. Every single day, from the moment you wake up, you’re pitching something to someone.
Consider it this way: your interactions at work. When I arrive at work, I’m essentially pitching myself to fulfill my role effectively. Even in casual coffee conversations, like the one I had this morning with Scott, I had to pitch my thoughts and ideas. I pitched myself to be engaged in that conversation. There was a lovely God story moment this morning when I was talking to a gentleman named Kelvin, whom I met at the coffee shop. After some conversation, I asked, “Are you into music?” He said, “Yes.” I noticed your logo on your hat. I replied, “Well, I’m a musician who creates Jesus-centered music. Here’s my card. Let me know what you think.” In that moment, I was making a pitch. We’re constantly making pitches every day.
I pitch myself to my wife daily, asking, “What can I do to make your day wonderful?” Similarly, she pitches ideas to me, and we do the same with our kids, grandkids, and even at our church. When I lead worship, I’m essentially making a pitch to the congregation. Although I’m serving an audience of one, I want the entire congregation to join in and be part of that experience with me. It’s all about making connections and inviting people into meaningful moments.
John Liddle:
I love these different aspects of your life, whether it be the songwriting or the storytelling. We both got to hear somebody say that “stories are sticky” and I know that stuck with you as well. You know, songs are sticky as well. Sometimes it’s just with the hook, and sometimes it’s what the song has to say. And I know for you, it’s a lot of times what the song has to say. So I I thank you so much for joining us on the show, and when people wanna check you out, maybe get into community with you. Where do we do that?
Mark Alewine:
Go to MarkAlewineMusic.com.
That’s going to have the Packlife Men, and our God Stories call and our podcast.
Our podcasts are about 20-ish minutes long, give or take.
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